I don't know about that. Hades is an extremely powerful god. He wasn't able to defeat Cronus on his own, he had the help of many others. He didn't get to rule the heavens because he was more powerful than his brothers he inherited Olympus because he won it. The brothers drew for their kingdoms: Poseidon drew the seas, Zeus drew the heavens, and Hades drew the underworld.There was never a war between the two brothers. And even if they were to go to war with each other, there won't even be a battle. Zeus would defeat hades in a second. Zeus was more powerful than all the gods combined. He really had very few limits in his power after defeating Kronos and becoming the absolute ruler of the universe.
Are you referring to when Christianity overpowered Paganism? I think that this is just something that happens. People believe in one thing until something else comes along. Ideas change and people stop believing in things that they previously believed in. I don't know that it is a war on one specific religion. America was overrun with Puritan settlers, but burning witches at the stake isn't something that people practice anymore. That I know of. I don't know that anyone will fall into cutting the throats of baby goats and burning them on an alter for the Olympians. I'm pretty sure that Greek myth is most widely accepted as just that, myth. I'm sure one day in the future Christianity will be taught in school as a myth as well and then there will be another religion rising up to take the place of Christianity. It's just the way of human kind. We hear things and decide whether or not to believe them or believe in something else. We're always trying to explain things that we see or feel and figure out why they are that way and who made them that way, if anyone. It's human nature.There is a war upon the Olympians by Jesus and Christianity, Jesus stole the thunderbolt return it unto to Zeus by saying Zeus! our heaven that most of man thinks of right now is actually hades and Hades is at war with Olympia.
appease the gods of Olympia do not fear the lord, do not fear death.
Worship the gods of Greece!
Between the two, Hades is my favourite as well. Zeus just bugs me, the way he treats Hera as well as humanity. Hades is just a misunderstood god because his kingdom is the underworld. I would love to see the two brothers go at it. I am quite confident Hades would beat the crap out of Zeus, what with all the souls he would now have wandering through his domain. Now there's a story I would want to read (or go see). But you're right. If Zeus were smart, he would back down the moment Hades threatened to release the imprisoned titans. *sigh*As for who would win in a battle between the two, well I know my opinion is biased because I like Hades more than Zeus, but I have to vote for Hades. Hades is an extremely powerful god. In one myth it was said that Hades drew power from the souls he collected. That's a crap-ton of strength if you consider all of the souls residing in Hades. Not only that, Hades has the power to rule over gods that have died. Zeus isn't the one who holds the keys to the other gods and Titans prison Tartarus is, and who controls Tartarus?...Hades. I think if Zeus ever did try to go up against Hades, all he'd have to do is threaten to let all of them go, all of the Titans who hate Zeus and even their father, and he'd back down. Every god, even one day Zeus, will fall under the domain of Hades. Besides, as I've said, their domains are so different, I can't imagine why, aside from the times when Zeus is angered when Hades takes the soul of one of his children, they'd go up against one another anyway.
Particularly in the Iliad there seem to be some differing opinions about just how powerful Zeus was. Even though it was by lot that Zeus acquired the (physically) highest portion of the family estate, it is still Zeus who was crowned king of all the deities and thus held sovereignty over both of his brothers, between the two of whom only Poseidon ever seems to have a problem with the amount of authority that Zeus exercises. Once during the Trojan War he levels a bitter complaint about it when the messenger-goddess Iris delivers him a command from Zeus. Poseidon first makes a point of recounting the story of how he became king of the sea, Zeus lord of the sky and Haides ruler of the dead (yes, by lot-casting). He therefore bears equal honour to Zeus so "Despite his [Zeus'] power, let him stay quietly in his own third [of the universe]. And let him not try to frighten me, as if I were a coward. Let him menace his sons and daughters with angry words: he begot them and they are forced to listen to his urgings." But Iris asks him if he's sure that this is the response to Zeus' command he wants her to convey. Poseidon thinks twice about it but even though he stands down, he warns that if Zeus prevents the destruction of Troy at the hands of the Greeks, against the desire of Poseidon, Athena, Hera, Hermes and Hephaistos, then "tell him there’ll be an irreparable breach between us."I don't know about that. Hades is an extremely powerful god. He wasn't able to defeat Cronus on his own, he had the help of many others. He didn't get to rule the heavens because he was more powerful than his brothers he inherited Olympus because he won it. The brothers drew for their kingdoms: Poseidon drew the seas, Zeus drew the heavens, and Hades drew the underworld.
In the original mythology, the souls of dead human beings are not really useful to anyone for much anything beyond granting living humans bits and pieces of information, and this power was limited since very few human inhabitants of the Underworld are able to even hold on to their memories and minds! It's only after a drink of fresh blood that they temporarily reboot themselves before fading back into being mute shadows of their formerly living selves. All the monsters killed by various heroes over time ended up as ghosts of themselves in the Underworld, and Haides placed them at the entrance and exit of his realm to keep the monstrous watchdog Kerberos company, but they weren't much good for anything else but scaring the incoming dead from leaving as well as frightening living mortals who tried to trespass into the land of the deceased. Herakles encountered the ghost of Medusa when he descended into the Underworld to fetch Kerberos as the last of his twelve tasks, and when he tried to attack the apparition, Hermes told him to leave it alone since it couldn't do him any harm.In one myth it was said that Hades drew power from the souls he collected. That's a crap-ton of strength if you consider all of the souls residing in Hades. Not only that, Hades has the power to rule over gods that have died. Zeus isn't the one who holds the keys to the other gods and Titans prison Tartarus is, and who controls Tartarus?...Hades. I think if Zeus ever did try to go up against Hades, all he'd have to do is threaten to let all of them go, all of the Titans who hate Zeus and even their father, and he'd back down.
Actually, from his interactions with a lot of his children and grandchildren, it doesn't seem like Zeus is much bothered about this kinda thing. He himself zapped his son Iasion dead using a thunderbolt, punished his son Tantalos by putting him into Tartaros, sanctioned the tormenting of his son Tityos also in Tartaros, changed his grandson Lykaon into a wolf, killed almost all of Lykaon's sons using lightning, and nearly drowned his own son Megaros in the Flood (and not by accident ). Of his mortal offspring with whom he had decent enough relations, he often had a means of making them live on, and thus when Zagreus was dismembered by the Titans he had him reincarnate as Dionysos (who thereafter never died), he made Minos, Rhadamanthys and Aiakos judges of the dead in Haides' court, his great-grandson Achilles he settled on Leuke or Elysium, and he didn't really mind Herakles and Helen dying because that's the means (through shedding their mortal parts) by which they attained immortality as gods or minor divinities. The only child of Zeus (apart from Zagreus) whose death we ever see him mourning, is in the Iliad, when Patroklos killed Sarpedon, whom Zeus had granted three human generations of life. Zeus would have liked to keep him alive even longer but Fate would not allow him to do this, especially while the children of other gods were falling on the battlefield as well. And Zeus didn't blame Haides for Sarpedon's loss. In fact, if he wanted to, Zeus could have given Sarpedon a place of honour in Haides' house, similar to the positions enjoyed there by Sarpedon's brothers Minos and Rhadamanthys and his half-brother Aiakos....Zeus is angered when Hades takes the soul of one of his children...
I suppose this is possible. The playwright Aiskhylos makes the Titan Prometheus declare very confidently that he knows Zeus' reign will be short, and that another will overtake him someday. In this instance, though, the hints at who the new ruler will be seem to point at a son of Zeus by Metis or Thetis, but since those threats seem to have been neutralised by Zeus' machinations, maybe the culprit is Haides, the "upside-down Zeus," or "Zeus of the Nether Realm."Every god, even one day Zeus, will fall under the domain of Hades.
This is a lot to read through, I only skimmed, unfortunately. As I always say, there are several interpretations to Greek mythology. When I was studying Classical myth I'd hear new variations to mythologies that I'd never heard before. It was through reading such poetry that I fell in love with Hades (reading Edith Hamilton) and learned to pity the Titans a little, I've always hated Zeus so that didn't change.
Except humanity began to suffer once Zeus took the throne. Remember that it was Cronus who ruled over the Golden Age. Good for man, though woman had yet to be created. It was Zeus who destroyed the Golden Age and thought to create a better age, the Silver Age, but during the Silver Age the seasons began to change, before it was perpetually Spring. Because the weather changed and grew colder people had to take shelter in caves to keep warm and they need food because it wasn't available like it had been before so they began to hunt. To hunt they needed weapons so they had to create those. Still to keep warm and eat they need fire which Zeus refused to give to them because he thought it would make humans too strong and so he decided he'd rather humanity freeze to death than have fire. Lucky for us Prometheus said 'screw you' to Zeus and gave it to us anyway. Though we suffered for that as well because it was after Prometheus gave man fire that Zeus thought to punish us for something we didn't do by creating Pandora and cursing humanity with fear, anger, disease, strife, war, famine, etcetera, etcetera. All the while were going from Silver to Bronze until Zeus gets so fed up with humanity's bad qualities, that we didn't even have until he introduced them to us, that he decided to flood the earth and kill us all and start from scratch (thanks Lycaaon). And so entered the Iron Age. The toughest and most miserable of the ages. I don't know how much of that he supposedly did for humanity but I certainly wish we'd have been given a vote in the matter. I'd have stuck with Cronus. Cronus was a bad guy because he castrated his father then ate his children, but Zeus did the exact same thing. From Cronus came Aphrodite. Zeus ate Athena's mother because he received a prophecy saying she'd have powerful children. And I'm sure Zeus has raped more women that Cronus or any of the other gods combined. I really don't think Cronus was a bad guy at all. Zeus, now, that's a whole other story.If Zeus were smart,
Zeus is shrewd or wise because he fights for the Olympians and struck down the titans so we as humanity could rise from the ashes.
But dudette, if/when you get the time you should most def go thru the full shebang!This is a lot to read through, I only skimmed, unfortunately.
The reason it's a lot is precisely because of the myriad sources of contrasting perspectives which I'm trying to relate (and conciseness regarding that is unfortunately not one of my strengths ), but if you go thru it all I'm sure you'll appreciate how I agree with your broken-telephone analogy, which includes stories mentioned by Apollodoros, Hesiod, Nonnos, Ovid and Pindar among others (even though I might not have named them explicitly). The theology of Aiskhylos, by the way, who I have mentioned, seems to be quite different from that of Homer and Hesiod. Without his Prometheus character I doubt we'd have much detail of the idea about the possibility of Zeus' throne being vulnerable to a hostile takeover, or too much insight into Prometheus himself. Having said that, however, I do still think that, if it's the original Greco-Roman mythology (and not the modern renditions thereof) that we're talking about here - unless we're referring to the rare, really obscure versions of Zeus and the gods (e.g. the dead, entombed Zeus on Crete Island) - most of these deities were painted as virtually all-powerful entities (though amazingly human in their flaws), their sky-king especially. (I did briefly mention the story in which Zeus was almost killed by a dragon, though, which comes from Apollodoros and Nonnos, and I think it's quite an enigmatic myth, featuring the removal of the sinews in his limbs!) And the main reason for my focus on the Iliad in that last post is just because it's the source of all that colourful smack Poseidon and Zeus are talking in different parts of the epic. It was too gangstah not to use I wonder why there isn't such great dialogue in the movies which're supposedly based on these mythsI try not to put too much into one specific myth or poet because they all have something different to say. Their stories are told from their perspectives. The world is seen through their eyes, tainted by their own life experiences. It is much less one single account of historical fact and more just an extreme version of the game of Telephone.
Further on differing perspectives, the Egyptian writer Clement of Alexandria is an interesting reference, since he forcefully points out the contradiction of Zeus being the god of justice and yet behaving so unjustly. The philosopher Socrates refused to believe the myths portraying Zeus as a philandering serial rapist. When I started reading Greek myths I have to say I found Zeus to be the most fascinating character but was always amazed at the degree to which he and most of his fellow gods molested women (and men too sometimes), and the amount of injustice they perpetrated against humankind (notwithstanding how unjust as the human race is per se). Doubtless this is the origin of some of the impetus for the hinted threats about the era of these deities coming to an end so that they share the fate of their predecessors.When I was studying Classical myth I'd hear new variations to mythologies that I'd never heard before. It was through reading such poetry that I fell in love with Hades (reading Edith Hamilton) and learned to pity the Titans a little, I've always hated Zeus so that didn't change.
I'd never seen that before, thanks for sharing.I've actually never read Edith Hamilton but I've read and watched numerous versions of many, many of these myths, including a really old-skool Disney Silly Symphony entitled The Goddess of Spring. It's a crazy 10 minutes of animated opera about Haides' abduction of Persephone, made in 1934! U seen this? Haides features therein in his modern-media incarnation as the red-horned, pointy-eared goblin-like (but sorta handsome) devil, clad pretty much like Count Dracula, while the blonde Persephone is pretty much a forerunner of the Hippies from a few decades later but it's humorous, jazzy and funky (especially for opera ). The last time I watched this (before Googling it just now) is when I was a little kid before I even knew what mythology was, Greco-Roman or otherwise. Check it out in case you've never seen it (man, it's weird how everything's on YouTube these days!)
I did thoroughly enjoy those, but in my defense they were assigned reading initially, I just happened to enjoy them.Thanks for bearing with me. Always good discussing these... discussions with y'all. I'm learning from you too!
(& if you can survive the whole of Apollodoros' Library and 15 books of Ovid's Metamorphoses, I'm sure my few random online scribbles ain't nuthin' )
Lucky for us Prometheus
What has man done with the fire Prometheus stole from Olympia and passed unto man. Hardly appeasing the Gods with it I say, except those few individuals in history such as Plato or Socrates maybe many other scholars and some generals but as a whole even this country has lost remembrance and nostalgia of the Greeks and ancients.