Kids & technology

Nadai

Active Member
I was having a conversation with a friend of mine recently. She is an older woman with grandchildren in elementary school. She mentioned to me that her youngest granddaughter, eight, asked for an iPhone for her birthday this year. She told me about how surprised, she thought her granddaughter would want a new Barbie or some other toy, not an iPhone. We went on to talk about how when we were young we didn't have those types of gadgets and it's her feeling that kids shouldn't have those things today. She feels that they're for adults. I agree. I didn't have a phone until I was old enough to have a job and pay the bill, but it would seem that it's pretty common these days. My twelve year old nephew has an iPhone, an iPad, and an iPod. I think that is nonsense, but my brother feels that, at his age, he should have these things and know how to use them or he will fall behind.
Do you guys agree that kids should have these gadgets at their disposal or do you feel that children shouldn't be allowed to have them because they're too advanced?
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I agree whole heartedly with you. Cell phones and computers are for adults, or at the very youngest, high school students. iPods, I can easily say high school students. Young children have no concept of money and budgeting, and can easily get lost in their own little worlds, and I think giving them these devices too soon can cause antisocial behaviour and definitely causes what I would call Spoiled Brat Syndrome (you know, they begin to think that everything should just be passed down to them automatically).

I have two younger cousins, from the same aunt, who, the older of, has a computer of their own. I forget since when, but before I got mine. Too young anyway, and is now a little antisocial. Comes down somtimes during family gatherings, but mostly just goes back up to the computer. The younger one got a phone for their thirteenth birthday; and is now always playing games on that thing. Every family gathering. Well this cousin of mine makes their presence known, definitely makes it known, more often than not, that phone is out with one game or another being played. They are both a little antisocial (but thankfully neither of them act like spoiled brats).

I wouldn't give my children their own phone until maybe their second year in high school, and would tell them they can have their own computer when they can pay for it themselves.

Peace out!

E. M.
 

Caburus

Active Member
I'm torn over this question. On the one hand why should kids be given what can be viewed as expensive adult life tools (and things I'd like for myself let alone give away - I don't particularly want Barbie dolls and toy fire engines). On the other hand these are items that are becoming more and more integral to school and social life. Times move so quickly, what was once viewed as a luxury is now a necessity, or comes as standard (central heating, car radios, wi-fi, etc). Letting children have computers/phones, I feel, is okay, but maybe not every time they want one. Then again bicycles used to be adults only, as were foreign holidays and new clothes. But with these things they got cheaper to buy, so were more easily affordable for parents to purchase. It's the cost of the electronic stuff I don't like, and the use made by advertisers of parental guilt to give in to a child's (often unrealistic/uncaring/unappreciative) expensive demands. There is also the problem of inappropriate use of them - but I know plenty of adults who use their phone at the table, keep it on at the theatre, answer it mid-conversation, leave house guests to nip upstairs and check their e-mails, etc, and these aren't young adults either..

I think a similar argument once occurred over giving books to children. Books were once a luxury item, for adults only; there for education, or for adult leisure/necessity. Giving books to children encouraged anti-social behaviour (sitting alone/in company reading instead of playing or engaging in conversation), led to unrealistic expectations about the world (the perils of reading romantic fiction stories), and meant they weren't creating their own entertainment (being spoon-fed someone else's imagination). Not to mention damaging education because you relied on reading the information instead of remembering it for yourself, and spent time reading instead of learning a useful skill. I remember my brother-in-law actually using some of these arguments to not let his children join the local library 30 years ago!
 

Nadai

Active Member
I'm torn over this question. On the one hand why should kids be given what can be viewed as expensive adult life tools (and things I'd like for myself let alone give away - I don't particularly want Barbie dolls and toy fire engines). On the other hand these are items that are becoming more and more integral to school and social life. Times move so quickly, what was once viewed as a luxury is now a necessity, or comes as standard (central heating, car radios, wi-fi, etc). Letting children have computers/phones, I feel, is okay, but maybe not every time they want one. Then again bicycles used to be adults only, as were foreign holidays and new clothes. But with these things they got cheaper to buy, so were more easily affordable for parents to purchase. It's the cost of the electronic stuff I don't like, and the use made by advertisers of parental guilt to give in to a child's (often unrealistic/uncaring/unappreciative) expensive demands. There is also the problem of inappropriate use of them - but I know plenty of adults who use their phone at the table, keep it on at the theatre, answer it mid-conversation, leave house guests to nip upstairs and check their e-mails, etc, and these aren't young adults either..

I think a similar argument once occurred over giving books to children. Books were once a luxury item, for adults only; there for education, or for adult leisure/necessity. Giving books to children encouraged anti-social behaviour (sitting alone/in company reading instead of playing or engaging in conversation), led to unrealistic expectations about the world (the perils of reading romantic fiction stories), and meant they weren't creating their own entertainment (being spoon-fed someone else's imagination). Not to mention damaging education because you relied on reading the information instead of remembering it for yourself, and spent time reading instead of learning a useful skill. I remember my brother-in-law actually using some of these arguments to not let his children join the local library 30 years ago!
I'd never considered that point; what once was a luxury can become so commonplace. It does make sense that these tech-y gadgets would be the next step where once it was books and bikes. I suppose my reluctance to accept that kids have the desire for so much technology stems from the fact that these things weren't around when I was growing up; if I could survive my childhood without and iPad than why couldn't my children? But the world is ever-growing and I suppose that it is true that if kids these days don't learn to utilize technology they could be left behind because it has become such an integral part of society.

I myself have an iPad and my children navigate it better than I do, but I couldn't imagine buying one for toddlers or even elementary or middle school children. I don't think that something so expensive should be so wantonly thrown around.

I had a couple of friends in high school. They were twins and they did everything together (parties, sports, etc.). On their sixteenth birthday they both came to school in brand new, very beautiful and expensive BMW convertibles. I thought, even at that age, how much of a waste it was. While their parents were wealthy, I didn't see the point in spending so much money on two separate cars for two daughters who did everything and went everywhere together. Same car, same color, always parked in the same places together... About two weeks after they got their car one of the twins got into a wreck over the weekend and by that Monday she was back behind the wheel. I think that spending like that, just for the sake of being able to say that you have something that not many others have, is what's the waste. If a person isn't able to understand or accept the responsibility that comes with owning something like a car or computer or tablet, then why waste the money purchasing one? It's never made sense to me.
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
You make a very good point, Nadai. I would also like to point out that there is a big difference between reading books, and finding information off the internet, via computer or mobile. Reading is a very valuable skill that is always looked for, in every job, and books are a learning tool. I'd like to point out that there is such a thing as children's books, which enable children to learn how to read without, as Caburus put it, "encouraging unrealistic expectations about the world". Children need to be read to, and through books learn how to read themselves. It's part of growing up, and without that, would be lost. Reading is a necessity. Books come first, computers and phones later. Speech, reading and writing are the three most essential things we need; it's how we communicate.

Now, I'd like to point out that books are tangible, solid and hard copy. They cannot be messed up without anyone noticing. On the internet, however, websites are constantly updated and being changed. Anyone can say anything. With blog spots, no one has to go through any editor or publisher fort proofing, they just click one button and their words are up for the world to see. There's no danger in reading a book; in fact it encourages the use of imagination. When most people read, they don't just sit there with the book looking at the words and doing nothing with their brain. No. Most visualize the characters, the setting, and (I myself at least) the tangibility of the written surroundings and how the people sound. Even scent can make a play in the imagination. Books go much deeper than just the words on the page. On the internet, there are hackers (where those annoying little viruses come from), and malicious wrong-doers constantly posting false information. You can't expect children to get this; it's a too dangerous place for them. That's another reason why I say they shouldn't have their own computers. There are too many dangers! Children need time to learn about them first.

On their sixteenth birthday they both came to school in brand new, very beautiful and expensive BMW convertibles. I thought, even at that age, how much of a waste it was. While their parents were wealthy, I didn't see the point in spending so much money on two separate cars for two daughters who did everything and went everywhere together. Same car, same color, always parked in the same places together... About two weeks after they got their car one of the twins got into a wreck over the weekend and by that Monday she was back behind the wheel.
Cars of their own the moment they turned 16?!? That's disgusting. Especially one for each of them, when they go the same places all the time. What a waste! I see absolutely no point in that madness. I mean, at the very least, they could have made it a joint gift - you know, have the girls share. *sigh* What's this world coming to?

And, the one girl gets in a wreck, and she's still allowed to drive?!? I'd be taking away her driving privileges after that -- for at least a week (if lucky).

Peace out!

E. M.
 

Nadai

Active Member
There's no danger in reading a book; in fact it encourages the use of imagination. When most people read, they don't just sit there with the book looking at the words and doing nothing with their brain. No. Most visualize the characters, the setting, and (I myself at least) the tangibility of the written surroundings and how the people sound. Even scent can make a play in the imagination. Books go much deeper than just the words on the page. On the internet, there are hackers (where those annoying little viruses come from), and malicious wrong-doers constantly posting false information. You can't expect children to get this; it's a too dangerous place for them. That's another reason why I say they shouldn't have their own computers. There are too many dangers! Children need time to learn about them first.
I agree entirely. I do the same thing when I read books. Visualize the characters and scenes in my mind. It becomes a sort of movie that I can watch while I read. It is also another reason why I don't like to watch movies that are also books, not just because there are sometimes inconsistencies between the two but also because, most times, the image I created doesn't match with the one portrayed then it becomes something that I just can't get into because it isn't how I saw it.

There is the risk of kids reading things that they shouldn't be reading or finding information that they take as accurate, but isn't. Or the risk of kids coming into contact with people or images they should not. It is easy to type into a search engine something that you think is harmless and come away scarred from what you find; kids don't always know how to protect themselves from things like that. Hell, even some adults. With the gift of technological advancement comes a greater risk that people can be taken advantage of and children can be exploited. I'm studying Criminology in school and it amazing how high tech criminals have become. It's shameful because so many victims of these crimes are either elderly people or children visiting sites they shouldn't be.

Cars of their own the moment they turned 16?!? That's disgusting. Especially one for each of them, when they go the same places all the time. What a waste! I see absolutely no point in that madness. I mean, at the very least, they could have made it a joint gift - you know, have the girls share. *sigh* What's this world coming to?

And, the one girl gets in a wreck, and she's still allowed to drive?!? I'd be taking away her driving privileges after that -- for at least a week (if lucky).

Peace out!

E. M.
I agree with you. Kids these days are so spoiled, it's unfortunate. Kids have no imagination. These days they don't know how to go outside with no toys and make a game out of just whatever they can find around them. They feel entitled and we only make it worse by indulging them and giving them whatever they ask for. They are so lacking. Even in discipline. I read just yesterday about two 5th graders who had planned to rape and murder a female classmate. It's ridiculous how kids are these days with all of this bullying and suicide. It seems too much a coincidence that in the era of all of this advancement we should see such a decline in ethics and morality in our children. It makes me so very sad and so apprehensive about sending my own kids to school. I'm glad my kids take karate and so will know how to defend themselves. I'd hate to murder someone's kids for hurting my own (just kidding...).
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I agree entirely. I do the same thing when I read books. Visualize the characters and scenes in my mind. It becomes a sort of movie that I can watch while I read. It is also another reason why I don't like to watch movies that are also books, not just because there are sometimes inconsistencies between the two but also because, most times, the image I created doesn't match with the one portrayed then it becomes something that I just can't get into because it isn't how I saw it.
I know what you mean. I always prefer to read the book before going to see the movie. At least that way I've used my own imagination first, before going to see how the movie's director portrayed it. And of course, they always have to cut things out for time, which can sometimes take away from the story -- or the original story anyways. I almost always like the book better.

With the gift of technological advancement comes a greater risk that people can be taken advantage of and children can be exploited. I'm studying Criminology in school and it amazing how high tech criminals have become. It's shameful because so many victims of these crimes are either elderly people or children visiting sites they shouldn't be.
It's so sad how such great advancements are also so dangerous. We, as the human race, take so much for granted, and don't stop long enough to think of the consequences of each new thing. I find it sad because, all throughout history, it's always been the same thing with each advancement. These inventors seem to think only of the upside, and never of the downside. Yes, the computer may make, say, police investigations much easier, but they also make criminal activity itself so much easier. It's like the Schwartz on Spaceballs -- where there's an upside, there is also a downside. And too often, (outside of Spaceballs) the downside takes the wheel.

I agree with you. Kids these days are so spoiled, it's unfortunate. Kids have no imagination. These days they don't know how to go outside with no toys and make a game out of just whatever they can find around them. They feel entitled and we only make it worse by indulging them and giving them whatever they ask for. They are so lacking. Even in discipline. I read just yesterday about two 5th graders who had planned to rape and murder a female classmate. It's ridiculous how kids are these days with all of this bullying and suicide. It seems too much a coincidence that in the era of all of this advancement we should see such a decline in ethics and morality in our children. It makes me so very sad and so apprehensive about sending my own kids to school. I'm glad my kids take karate and so will know how to defend themselves. I'd hate to murder someone's kids for hurting my own (just kidding...).
I would like to make one minor correction: most kids. Those with lousy parents. There are still some kids, how ever few, who seem to be able to use their own imaginations. I've seen it with my own eyes, both at work and my neighbours' children. Now, I can't say anything about the kids I see at my job, but my neighbours' children are not spoiled. They get a limited amount of TV time, and in fact play mostly with what they already have. They still have a lot of their own imagination. It's all about discipline, and how a child is raised. If a parent gives their kid whatever they want the instant they ask for it, then they are going to have one mightily spoiled brat of a child. However, I would think that if the parent holds their ground, and gives only as needed -- and at a proper age -- then their child will grow into a fine, respectable person with a much more realistic view of the world.

By the way, that is disgusting about those 5th graders. Where would they even get such an idea? There's no way it came just from bullying. Clearly they were somewhere where they shuldn't have been. Online or a bad movie (though probably online -- there's too many disgusting websites, that depict such horrible and vile things). I mean, seriously, 5th graders?!?! Ugh, so disgusting!

Good for you to have your children learning defensive skills! I mean it. With the world as it is, I think it's very important for everyone to know how to defend themselves. We'll have to get through the night before we see the day -- and then, the night is darkest just before the dawn. I just hope it comes sooner rather than later. Because I can't wait to see the dawn -- although I fear it won't come anytime in my own lifetime. So depressing.

I get how you feel about your kids. I'd hate to have to bring out the big guns on anyone who would try to hurt my own offspring. ALOL (I'd like to start this little acronym for "awkwardly laughing out loud" ;)).

E. M.
 

Nadai

Active Member
It's so sad how such great advancements are also so dangerous. We, as the human race, take so much for granted, and don't stop long enough to think of the consequences of each new thing. I find it sad because, all throughout history, it's always been the same thing with each advancement. These inventors seem to think only of the upside, and never of the downside. Yes, the computer may make, say, police investigations much easier, but they also make criminal activity itself so much easier. It's like the Schwartz on Spaceballs -- where there's an upside, there is also a downside. And too often, (outside of Spaceballs) the downside takes the wheel.
I started reading a book series entitle Obernewtyn Chronicles when I was in middle school. The books are by Isobelle Carmody and they take place in the far distant future, hundreds of years from now. Rather than portraying the world as space-y and new-aged the landscape is much like it was when settlers first arrived to the new world; there are even types of witch hunts going on. The idea is that the earth is nearly destroyed and plunged back into the dark ages because humans become so engrossed in technology that they stop caring about the earth and its inhabitants and just focus solely on building bigger and better. What's called the "Great White" occurs, which I suppose can be compared to maybe a dust bowl, but one that covers the entire world. Like a giant volcano erupting and covering it in ash. It blocks out everything in a giant mushroom cloud and most everyone dies. Australia survives. Anyway, these people, our future selves, were so focused on advancement that they took everything else for granted and nearly destroyed the world because of it. It's amazing because these books were written so long ago, but they speak a lot to what is going on right now is our world. I picked up the series again a week ago because I remembered I'd never finished it. The last two books were only available in Australia when I'd first read them so I was finally able to get all of them and so now am reading them again. It makes me wonder if this could really be the fate of humanity. Of course it's just a book, but it doesn't seem so far fetched when you think about it. Look at how, already, the world has fallen so far into disrepair. It seems like all humans know how to do is build and destroy. We don't seem to just be able to live and be satisfied with the world as it is. It makes me a bit sad to see how much of the world has already been lost.

I would like to make one minor correction: most kids. Those with lousy parents. There are still some kids, how ever few, who seem to be able to use their own imaginations. I've seen it with my own eyes, both at work and my neighbours' children. Now, I can't say anything about the kids I see at my job, but my neighbours' children are not spoiled. They get a limited amount of TV time, and in fact play mostly with what they already have. They still have a lot of their own imagination. It's all about discipline, and how a child is raised. If a parent gives their kid whatever they want the instant they ask for it, then they are going to have one mightily spoiled brat of a child. However, I would think that if the parent holds their ground, and gives only as needed -- and at a proper age -- then their child will grow into a fine, respectable person with a much more realistic view of the world.
Of course. Not all children, some are still good (mine can't be the only ones;)). I can't speak for everyone's parenting because I don't know everyone, but from what I see around me and hear about on the news and whatnot, kids aren't the same as they used to be, which is normal I suppose. The world isn't the same place it was twenty or thirty years ago. I just can't imagine the type of world this will be when kids today are adults thinking themselves entitled to everything and not knowing about consequences to actions and not understanding how the world really works.

By the way, that is disgusting about those 5th graders. Where would they even get such an idea? There's no way it came just from bullying. Clearly they were somewhere where they shuldn't have been. Online or a bad movie (though probably online -- there's too many disgusting websites, that depict such horrible and vile things). I mean, seriously, 5th graders?!?! Ugh, so disgusting!

Good for you to have your children learning defensive skills! I mean it. With the world as it is, I think it's very important for everyone to know how to defend themselves. We'll have to get through the night before we see the day -- and then, the night is darkest just before the dawn. I just hope it comes sooner rather than later. Because I can't wait to see the dawn -- although I fear it won't come anytime in my own lifetime. So depressing.

I get how you feel about your kids. I'd hate to have to bring out the big guns on anyone who would try to hurt my own offspring. ALOL (I'd like to start this little acronym for "awkwardly laughing out loud" ;)).

E. M.
I can't imagine where they'd have gotten such a thing from, but I'd like to blame TV or video games, maybe even the parents. It's lucky that they were stupid enough to write their plan down though. It's a sad world we live in. All the things that we used to take for granted: being able to leave doors unlocked, playing outside, walking to school, going to school, it's all dangerous now.

I agree with you there. I'd hate to imagine how things will be if this isn't the darkest part.

Love the ALOL, by the way. I'm sure it will catch:)
 

Myrddin

Well-Known Member
I started reading a book series entitle Obernewtyn Chronicles when I was in middle school. The books are by Isobelle Carmody and they take place in the far distant future, hundreds of years from now. Rather than portraying the world as space-y and new-aged the landscape is much like it was when settlers first arrived to the new world; there are even types of witch hunts going on. The idea is that the earth is nearly destroyed and plunged back into the dark ages because humans become so engrossed in technology that they stop caring about the earth and its inhabitants and just focus solely on building bigger and better. What's called the "Great White" occurs, which I suppose can be compared to maybe a dust bowl, but one that covers the entire world. Like a giant volcano erupting and covering it in ash. It blocks out everything in a giant mushroom cloud and most everyone dies. Australia survives. Anyway, these people, our future selves, were so focused on advancement that they took everything else for granted and nearly destroyed the world because of it. It's amazing because these books were written so long ago, but they speak a lot to what is going on right now is our world. I picked up the series again a week ago because I remembered I'd never finished it. The last two books were only available in Australia when I'd first read them so I was finally able to get all of them and so now am reading them again. It makes me wonder if this could really be the fate of humanity. Of course it's just a book, but it doesn't seem so far fetched when you think about it. Look at how, already, the world has fallen so far into disrepair. It seems like all humans know how to do is build and destroy. We don't seem to just be able to live and be satisfied with the world as it is. It makes me a bit sad to see how much of the world has already been lost.
I see the first one, Obernewtyn, was written in 1987. Not too long ago, but still, it does seem depressingly prophetic. We do certainly seem to heading in the direction you described. It's only a matter of time before all our advancements blow up in our face. (Not to mention how much we've already lost because of some of them -- I gotta say, not a fan of the e-reader.)

I'm definitely interested in checking those books out. I see there's a final one, The Red Queen, due out some time this year.

The world isn't the same place it was twenty or thirty years ago. I just can't imagine the type of world this will be when kids today are adults thinking themselves entitled to everything and not knowing about consequences to actions and not understanding how the world really works.
I don't want to imagine. Please! I'm already depressed enough as it is. Ugh...! That's probably what will destroy us; take us back to the dark ages.


I can't imagine where they'd have gotten such a thing from, but I'd like to blame TV or video games, maybe even the parents. It's lucky that they were stupid enough to write their plan down though. It's a sad world we live in. All the things that we used to take for granted: being able to leave doors unlocked, playing outside, walking to school, going to school, it's all dangerous now.
It is such a sad world. I wouldn't be surprised if it were the cause of bad parenting, but I would like to mention that we can't blame the parents for everything. There are other factors as well, other people that children look up to aside from their parents. Authority figures in general like teachers, maybe the principal or vice principal. Then of course there are their friends, maybe with lousy parents, and who knows what's going on their street. Or all it could take is one simple news story. Who knows.

It's sad how dangerous everything has become. And just think, it's because bad parents lead to more bad parents; from Mr. and Mrs. Smith, to their children, and on to their children's children. And it just kept going that way I guess, until poof, we have the world as it is today! That's my theory, anyway.
I'd hate to imagine how things will be if this isn't the darkest part.
I fear it's not the darkest part of the night. I don't think we're anywhere near dawn yet. It's just going to keep getting darker and darker until, when hope is everything but extinguished, there will be a faint glimmer of light on the horizon. There are just too many sleazeballs taking power right now for the world to not get darker. I think we've only just passed midnight. *groan*

Stay happy!!

E. M.
 
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